That's grossly disgusting! I thought there were laws that prevented doctors and pharmacies from pulling tricks like that. How can we influence the FDA's decision?

****
I live under a bridge.

They shouldnt allow doctors to let their religous beliefs affect their practice. There should be a rule to make that illigal.

Seize the day or die regretting the time you lost
It's empty and cold without you here, too many people to ache over

kelsey! at the disco

There are very few states that have such laws, but most do not. California is one of the few states that has such a law.

To influence the FDA's decision, just visit this site. You'll have to go through a maze of very confusing double-talk to get where you need to go, though. I gave up after a while. :\

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

Story here

So now doctors are becoming apathetic to a woman's needs now, hmm? Awful couldn't begin to describe this.

Did Dr. Gish think of this? Such short-sighteness can have long-term effects, people.

I say that if a woman is raped and a doctor or pharmacist refuses to give the pill or refer her to someone who will and she gets pregnant, they should by law be required to help care for the child.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

Religion has no call to innterrupt hospital doings and treatments. That doctor should be fired.

So my advice to you is just to be a sweet pickle and everything will turn out for you in life - everything.

I understand that the doctor has issues with it, but they need to provide what things, even if they don't like it.

The people should not be afraid of it's government. The government should be afraid of it's people. -V

He can't be expected to give her the pill, its like telling a hindu to eat beef. If the hospital administrators had ordered him not to give her the pill THEN there's a problem.
But down in Oz there is a government hotline for women with unplanned pregnancies, BUT all of the councillers are from religious organizations that condemn abortion.
Anyway the doctor can't be expected to go against his religion, he considers it murder, if it was your job to operate the gas chambers back in world war 2 would you have done it?

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Yeah, if it is a private practice then I reckon he is compeltely within his rights to say no. (Although personally I think religion is a bit bogus) if it goes against his religion then he shouldn't have to do it. I think in hospitals or government run places they shouldn't be allowed to deny a woman the pill, but if it is his practice then more power to him.

If your personal ethics keep you from fulfilling your duties as whatever it is you do to serve people, why did you sign up for the job in the firs place? To borrow Plant's example, it's like a Hindu working in the butcher's section of a supermarket and refusing on moral grounds to sell anyone beef.

Also, Red, it was not a private practice. It was an emergency room.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

That when he became a doctor the mourning after pill wasn't around, people shouldn't have to modify their morals to suit a changing society.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

He may want to be a doctor and help people, but not want to go against his religion...

I would love to be an animator, but I wouldn't do any work for like... Neo Nazis trying to resurect Hitler or something because I don't agree with that...

People shouldn't have to follow orders blindly just because of their job.
Do you really think that if someone dedicates their life to becoming a doctor, learning medicine and they are doing what they love, that they should stop because they don't believe in the morning after pill?

Also I found it quite funny that plant called it the "mourning after pill" don't know why :)

I don't really think that either of your Nazi comparisons are accurate. Not only because it compares an innocent RAPE VICTIM to a group responsible for murder and disgrace on such an unspeakable and appalling level that it changed the way the entire world functions, but if you were an animator or had some other service job and were commissioned by Nazis to work for them, you could deny them your service and find work elsewhere. You would not seek payment from Nazis, or only do half of your job, would you? This doctor chose to serve this woman, but did not give her all of the services that she needed, further intimidating her after she was already horribly traumatized.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

I know, I couldn't find anything that applied to me because I am non religious, that one wasn't very good was it...

Seeing as it was in an emergency room in a hospital I think in this case he shouldn't have denied her the pill. But I think in a private practice this would have been ok, if he offered his services, that is exactly what he is offering, HIS services, not every service available wether he believes in it or not.

I'm a bit too tired for this at the moment, just wrote 2 paragraphs realised I was talking sheeite and had to delete them...

I agree that he may have a right to refuse service, but in such cases he should be compelled to refer the victim to whomever will help her. Having a child as a result of rape is like having a constant reminder of that incident. Ever read the Greek myths about Hercules?

My mother was raped about 25 years ago. She has never overcome it completely. She still has nightmares about it. She was lucky that she didn't get pregnant. If a woman did become pregnant as a result of rape, it would never bode well for the innocent life created.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

Leave me be...
Rape, of all the bad things that can happen to a person causes pehaps the least physical damage, yet causes the greatest psychological damage. Honestly I don't see how, but I'm a guy, and as it is I see thinngs VERY differently to normal people

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Basically, Dr. Holy-Man decided that preserving the sanctity of his untarnished soul was more important than catering to the needs and wishes of his patient, who just happened to be a rape victim.

Sacrificing another person's well-being for the sake of your own is selfish. Period. Any doctors who want to make calls like that need to go private. If they can't, they'd better suck it up and quit forcing their religious hang-ups on others who are perfectly happy "damning themselves" by taking said pill.

As always, "just my opinion!" etc, etc....

And he knows that. He didn't do it to try and force his religion on her, he did it so he could live guilt free, I think he deserves that.
Do you think he should assist patients who want to commit suicide too? Its the same thing to him.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

I think the real point is that, as a doctor, he should have been more concerned about her needs and more willing to help her. He brushed off her request as though it did not matter to him in the slightest and she was so hurt by it that she did not return to him or any other gynecologist for years. He absolutely should have referred her to another doctor if he could not bring himself to give her Plan B (which, as he should know as a licensed doctor, is not an abortion pill and does not affect already-conceived embryos in any way) and at the very least been more sympathetic and understanding of her needs as a woman and as a rape victim. He's a gynecologist, for crying out loud.

I do not understand how men can just expect women (especially rape victims) to just bear the suffering of an unwanted pregnancy, and it bothers me that there are men on this board defending such a man. I know that if I were ever pregnant as the result of rape, I would stop at nothing to rid myself of the fetus. I would stab myself in the stomach if I had to. I cannot think of anything crueler than having to care for or even just give life to the child of a rapist.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

If they're terminally ill, then yes. Yes, I do.

He was an emergancy room doctor, not a gynecologist, you've misunderstood. And his gender has nothing to do with this, a female doctor of his faith would have refused to give her the pill too.
I'm defending the doctors right to make his own choice, I'm not defending anti-abortionists, the point is she still got the pill, he knew he wasn't her only chance to get it.
And men don't expect women to carry unwanted children, I've met far more females opposed to abortion then I have males.
AND the child shouldn't carry the blame for the actions of the father, I have a niece and a nephew who are the children of the man who raped their 6 year old sister, but no one blames them for what happened.
Now in response to

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

I read the article first time through, but then I left this thread came back after a week and forgot most of the details.
In this case I think he was completely wrong, he was working in a public hospital, therefore he needs to follow the hospital rules not his own.
I think if he was a private doctor then he can follow whatever rules he wants (within reason obviously). Working in a public hospital is his choice he knew what he would have to do, if he was in a private practice then he could only perform the duties that are acceptable by his religion.
Personally if it was me I would do whatever I could to help this girl, but I don't think it is anyones right to say what is more important, her wellbeing or his, and if he believes that strongly in his religion then going against it could seriously affect him.

True, I misread that. And, to clarify, I don't think his gender impacted his choices -- I'm just generally irritated with men who don't respect that the life of a potential child rests on the mother alone, and while men are certainly entitled to their opinions, I don't think that they, nor anyone other than the mother, should actively choose for potential mothers. Obviously I don't think all men expect women to carry unwanted children, I just have a problem with the men who do.

As you have pointed out, this is not exactly what this doctor has done, since the woman could and did easily find her Plan B elsewhere. However, as Red pointed out, as an ER doctor working for a large hospital, I do not think his specific religious values should have come into play. It is akin to a therapist working in the psychiatric ward of a hospital who believes (against the mainstream professional opinion) that homosexuality is immoral and curable. This therapist works for a public, non-religiously-affiliated hospital and has a responsibility to represent the hospital's views. If the therapist cannot do that, he should either refer homosexual patients to another therapist in the ward or choose to work for a private counseling center that is more aligned with the therapist's religious views. Maybe this doctor does have a right to make his own choice based on his religious beliefs, but in a public nonreligious setting (which he chose to practice in) he should have followed the hospital's policy, or at least referred her to another doctor in the building who could. He also treated her question insensitively, which as a doctor he should not have done.

I agree that it isn't fair for a child to be blamed for the actions of his or her father, but... sometimes life isn't fair. I wholeheartedly admit that it would be unfair to take the pain of a rape out on the child that resulted from it, but at the same time I don't think I would be emotionally capable of doing otherwise. I applaud anyone who is.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

I would have robbed that store >_> if I were a woman. Been all like "Hey, give me that stupid pill or I'll rip you a vagina."

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"I want to be a doctor so I can go around asking people what their HP is." -Cesar and Eric

"Why does everything wrong have to be gay? Can't it be Bi?" -Cesar

>.< Dude, where I live, over-the-counter Plan B is 65 dollars. That's just gouging, man.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

If you were a doctor working in an Indian hospital would you refuse to treat a lower caste patient? Because in India, Japan and other such countries the Buddist caste system is still in place and your forbidden to touch a person of a lower caste. In Japan bottom caste citizens have thier own schools, hospitals, workplaces and even their own towns. In India its even worse, in the news a few weeks ago an upper caste school and a lower caste school were merged, so the upper caste teachers "purified" the lower caste students with cow urine. And that is the official government position, bottom caste Japanese have to carry an ID card and aren't allowed a mainstream job.
And hairballed Kat

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Plant: I can't really comment on that because I don't really know much about it, but if I was a doctor in India I still would not be religious, so I would of thought it would be fine for me to treat anyone. Unless it's against the law?

That's what I needed to say, and I said it!

Its not illegal, but neither was refusing the girl the pill. My point is would you go againts your own morals in order to fit in with the general public. But the general belief of even non-buddist people in India is that the bottom caste is dirty and evil etc, since it is made up of prostitutes, butchers, tanners, all the things neccisary for society but condemned by most religions.

In short the guy believes that if he gives her the pill he burns in some kind of hell for all eternity, that belief shouldn't mean he loses his job, and that really IS descrimination, isn't that right quamp?
Its like saying people of non-christian faiths can't work in malls over christmas, only if the doctor isn't working people are dying (if their hospitals are even close to as under-staffed as Australia's).

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Well first off you can't really say would *I* treat someone in India, because yes *I* would because I am not religious. I don't really think it is about fitting in, if you work in a public hospital then you fulfill all the duties needed by the public. If you don't wish to then you open a private practice.

I don't reckon it is discrimination because it is his choice, the hospital isn't saying you can't work here because you are this religion, they are (or should) be saying you can't work here because you arn't willing to fulfill your duties as a public doctor.

More extreme obviously, but if a secretary had a religious objection that meant she didn't answer phones then she would not be hired. That is life in the working world you are hired to do a job, you are told to do this job, and you do it. If you don't want to be told what to do then you need to be self employed.

If these people of the non-christian faith refused to sell anything they believed would be used as a christmas gift due to the fact that they didn't believe in it then no they shouldn't be hired at a mall over christmas.

It started as a religious belief but has spread and is accepted by all people in india, and as a doctor in india you would be expected to not treat the lower caste patient.

As a doctor in an emergency room I doubt he expected to be handing out what he considers to be murder in pill form. And sorry to say this but phones and abortion are two very different animals.
And it is descrimination, exacly discrimination. If he was buddist and refused to cut into human flesh THEN I would agree that he shouldn't be a doctor, but he disagrees with abortion and so refused to give a woman a pill she could get from any GP or gynecologist and even though its called "the morning after pill" its effective upto 72 hours after, so there was no real hurry.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

So we can at least all agree that the doctor was a jerk for not referring her to someone else himself, yes? I mean, he knew what she wanted, knew he wouldn't give it, and just blew her off without explanation or advice.

Ofcourse they are different, but it's the same principal. If you are not willing to perform all the necessary duties required in a field, then find another job, or a different place of work where they agree with your beliefs.

Although I think he informed her that he could not give her the pill due to his religion, I doubt he refused to say why. It might have even been him who said to try her gynecologist.

And xXRed13Xx the morning after pill hasn't even been around that long, its more than likely he was a doctor long before the pill was released, I even remember the whole big deal people made when it was released. Handing out the morning after pill wasn't in his job description and its a sad, sad fact that it has to be a dayly occurence in hospitals accross the world, every doctor and nurse shouldn't have to agree with its use.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

They don't have to agree with its use, but if they work in a public place where it is meant to be available then they should not and should not be able to refuse it. If they feel that strongly about it they need to find a place that agrees with their beliefs. Times change and if you are not willing to change with them then you need to find like minded people rather than inflicting your beliefs on those who do not want them.

Is in the middle east, one of the last places where that belief is generally accepted. Do true passifists have to fight if they're drafted? No, they get to work in a hospital or supply station or something like that. So I don't think a person who is honestly against the pill for a valid reason should have to hand it out.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Exactly. They don't agree with a certain practice, so they get to work somewhere else.

Game, Set and Match ^^

I swear to god you are the most stubborn litterate person I've ever interacted with. Your not actually reading what I'm writting are you?
Him not handing out the pill isn't harming anybody, they have lots of time to take it. He HAS the right not to personally supply her with the pill, just as you have the right to oppose his decision, except he has a valid reason.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...