Wow, I've never thought of it that way. Now that i think about it, It is usually just girls. Hmm.

Dattebayo

You do realize this is fabulously just, as (as if I must point this out) for centuries upon centuries, in all cultures from all reaches of the world, women have been scorned and frowned upon? Even now, in this enlightened day and age, women tend to get the hard handle of things? That most women get paid less than most men; that in China a girl is unwanted and either killed upon birth or put up for adoption; that it took America - that enlightened place of learning and "equality" (!) - some two hundred years to allow women to vote? And that women in some countries aren't even allowed out of the house to this day?

For your information, men get breast cancer too. Not as many as women, granted, but still enough to make a difference...September is National Prostate Cancer Awareness Month, as well. Though more are diagonosed with prostate cancer every year (230,110), more die from breast cancer (40,580).

And women have to get tested with doctors too. Women's feminess has to get shoved into a pinchy metal machine and shiver in the cold of the thing while picture upon picture is taken. Also, women have to get exams down there, too, once a year, with some (hopefully female) stranger rudely groping around down there. Technically, we get shafted on both ends of the rod. Ever heard of cervical cancer?

Are you saying that having an education is more important than being sexually abused and taught that you are no good to anyone else unless your legs are spread? ...Just curious as to what that statement means...

I'd just like to close with: before you open your mouth, please check your facts. Nothing is as unbalanced as it appears to be. You just (probably) haven't taken the time to do a little reasearch first.

No offense meant.

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

They also believe they have found a cure for a certain type of cancer at a certain stage (I forget which and where), so that gives hope that all cancers aren't 'incurable' as you'd like to think. And if cancer isn't curable, why are you pushing for prostate cancer to be equal as well? Wouldn't funding be better spent on AIDS research in that case?

...A mild contridiction that I would also appreciate being explained to see where, exactly, your point lies.

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

And most people don't know what it is, I bet you had to look it up. And I have heared of cervical cancer, except a vaccine for the STD that causes 92% of it is now given to women and girls in a lot of countries, besides, the vagina is designed to be penetrated, the rectom, I fear, is not.

AIDS research is also pointless, it mutates too fast for a vaccine to be produced, also 200 prostitutes in Nairobi have been found to be immune to AIDS, so who needs a cure?

Now to the Oprah thing, I'm just saying things didn't turn out so great. Nothing about what you said. But personally I'd rather be illiterate than abused.

My point being if someone had proposed an all boys school, females of all ages would decend on him shrieking, then procede to stone him to death and the media would paint him as being to females what Hitler was to jews, homosexuals, blacks, gypsies, the disabled... I know that women-only gyms out-number normal gyms 3-1 where I live, and the closest thing to an all mens gyms is a work-out room in the stone-masons lodge.

Do you know that in even more countries boys are forced from their homes and into the military, sometimes not yet in their teens?
Women too often use persicutions they have never seen first hand nor experience to play the victim, please don't fall in with that lot.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Before I reply, what exactly was it that I had to look up? Because everything in that response, except the dead hard numbers, I already knew because I had to actualy - surprise - learn it in school.

Also, you're going to say that the abuse (sometimes violent) and disregard of females throughout the ages is something to just be spat upon and disregarded?

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

Yes, I knew that too. It's called a draft, something that a few of my friends may be entering shortly.

And trust me, I've seen it first hand. In fact, I think I'm seeing a little bit of it right now.

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

I'm just saying you can't play the "abused and down-trodden for 1000's of years" card since you weren't around in those times. These days you have equal rights in most places and special treatment in most of those places.
What country do you live in?

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

The United States.

However, let me make free to point out that there have been quite a few instances where I have told I haven't been good enough seeing as I'm an innie not an outie. An art club, for instance. Several sports teams. Not to mention degrading butt grabs and wolf whistles in the middle of class. (My butt is big; I know this; stop pointing it out.) It may not be that I'm locked away in a dark, sunlit room, but it's much the same.

Also, if it doesn't apply to me, think of it as applying your torture to my ancestors' tortures of long, long ago. Because the way you are making it sound makes it sound like you want the focus to be all on the males - as it has been for centuries.

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

Some empty-headed tools have signed up for what they thought would be a picnic with guns, now they're dying.
You think you have it bad? If any girl I know gets upset they slap me because I won't hit a woman, I've got nail scars because some poor girl got dumped. 5 years ago girls used to slap me for laughs because they know I wouldn't hit them back.
In my town there's 3 major department stores and dozens of smaller buisnesses that only hire girls to work in their store (excpet in the loading dock and after hours shelf packing) thats half the reason I can't find a part time job.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Plant! You didn't seriously just say that did you? Surely you don't actually think that the persecution and oppression of women is over do you? Since when? If you want to a picture of the extremes, take a look at the misogyny in the Middle East; take a look at the clitoridectomy (female castration) in Africa; and take a look at the female-slave trade in Korea. Even when you look outside of the extreme circumstances and look at "progressive" places like the Western World, you've still got women getting paid less money than males for doing the exact same job (because, you know, woman's bills aren't as important as a mans); you've still got fathers marrying their daughters off at early ages in order to bring more money into the family; you've still got women who are raised to actually believe that they are inferior to men. Inferior. Oppression is not dead.

Citing the sufferings of others like yourself when making an argument is not a way of "playing the victim." It's called solidarity, identifying with the pain and trials of others. The fact that such things are allowed to happen to women is a perfect reason for any woman to be angry, even to be afraid. Not only are such things wrong, but so long as they are tolerated it is possible that they could happen to me, to Killijoy, to any woman.

That being said, it is true that there are certain idiots (both men and women) in this world who think that women are in fact superior to men, which is absurd as well. Genitalia mean nothing. A touchy pseudo-feminist is just as bad as a male chauvinist. And girls who hit boys and expect not to get hit back, or who feel it is their God-given right to have the door opened for them by males, don't exactly help matters either.

What also doesn't help matters is being jealous or upset when someone stands up for the historically oppressed group. It's true that Oprah could have easilly opened a school for both males and females to balance things out, but guess what: she didn't feel like it. It's her money, and she decided to help girls with it. That sucks for all of the boys who could have used an education as well, but since when is Oprah obligated to save the whole world? She's only human. Yes, the move to cater to the female demographic exclusively does reveal certain of her prejudices, but here's how I see it: at least she's helping somebody. If I had heard that Oprah had opened an all boys school, I would have said, "Cool."

I agree, though, that not everyone would have. A lot of women definitely would have cried out about it. The media may have even reflected poorly upon it. That, in itself, is further proof that women have not obtained equality. If we had, then "helping women" wouldn't be such a hot issue. Because that's really all it is. You'd only have to come to America to realize that. We flaunt ourselves about as the most "free and advanced" of nations, yet we sell our little girls toys that encourage them to aspire towards being mothers, princesses, and babysitters when they grow up; we propagate ridiculously Euro-centric beauty standards via the television airwaves to the point that it's rare to meet a woman of color who isn't desperately altering her appearance in order to feel like less of an outsider in her own country (whether she realizes she's doing it or not); and the women here with any common sense have to spend half their lives convincing most of the males in their lives that they are human beings, not breasts with legs, because it isn't a given by now.

And one final note on identifying with the sufferings of others: it keeps one from becoming self-centered. Realizing that others like and unlike you also go through trials like or unlike your own is a part of growing up - it broadens your view of the world as a whole.

Persecution of both sexes is far from over.
For example, in Saudi Arabia a month or two ago, an unmarried woman was convicted of going out without her father present. She ended up getting raped in by eight men. They weren't prosecuted. She was sentenced to life in prison. Fortunately, the king of Saudi Arabia, bowing to international pressure, pardoned her.

I believe as long as we keep emphasizing the differences between the sexes and refuse to search for common ground, this kind of stuff will continue. We are all on one planet, we should live like it.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

I just said Killijoy hasn't experienced it, those women who do and have experienced opression and injustices deserve to have sympathy and be acknowledged. But the women of today can't say "my ancestors suffered and so I deserve special treatment".

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

My oppinion on this subject is often received badly, but I'll give it anyway.

Yes in the past women have been oppressed and persecuted to extremes, but Killi I don't think that makes it "fabulously just" if men are being treated the same or badly in anyway just for being male.
The people who basically think there should be revenge for how women have been treated are going to ensure that the cycle of oppression between the sexes continue.

I agree that generally speaking men and women should have pretty much equal rights and freedoms, but for people to say men and women are exactly the same and deserve exactly the same rights I disagree.
Men and women are different, not in a good or bad way, just different. Each having their advantages and disadvantages.

Generally women seem to mature faster and there is the whole women being able to multi task better than men thing, while the average male will be much stronger than the average female.

As for hitting women, unless it was really necessary, like my life was being threatened or something like that, I would never hit a girl. Men are generally stronger than women and women tend to be a bit more fragile. I have also been brought up to respect women and never to strike one, but that is besides the point.

To people who say neither sex is inferior, I disagree. I think both sexes are inferior in different ways.

I have also been brought up to be a gentleman (plus I have a bit of a hero complex).
I hold open doors for women.
I give my jacket or jumper etc when they are cold no matter what state it leaves me in.
I more often than not feel I should be paying for things for women, and I have 1 dislocated knuckle a chipped bone in another knuckle and some scars on my right hand from fights that I feel are my duty to step into because a girl is being mistreated, 1 defending a girl who was physically punched in the head by a guy and 1 defending a girl who was being shaken, pushed and shouted at because she wouldn't speak to this guy in a bar.

I don't know how to finish this off really, I don't really have a summary or anything :D
Basically I think men and women are different and should be treated differently in certain circumstances. People just need to learn what these circumstances are.
But at the same time people need to learn that they arn't necessarily black and white, there are grey areas and people are going to get these things wrong. And if we go about blaming people and looking for revenge for past injustices then people are going to keep getting it wrong and things will never get better.

I agree whole-heartedly with you. =D We are different in different ways, and we should both be treated as each other's superiors and inferiors.

I am sorry everybody had to read that post, as it was four in the morning, and I was very upset at Plant's posting. After all, we all deserve to be equal in a general way. I was just upset that he was making it sound as if the females had dominated the world, and made men the world's slaves. After all, we all get shafted on either side of the rod, and in my uncontrollabe, coffee-milk rage (=D) I was trying to make that point. After all, I feel if he had actually had circumstances that were a little more solid and he had presented it in a more prepared, debate-ish way, I would have been prepared to use more facts and figures than I did and also present in a more general way. The fact that I felt like I (and other girls everywhere) were being attacked put me on the defensive and made me write the way I did.

I apologize to all involved that they had to read that.

Perhaps next time we post something of this controversy level, we make sure to keep it nuetral and balanced, meh?

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

Women are not treated better than men.

And in a lot of areas, men are not treated better than women, (excluding the Middle East).

I agree with a lot of what Red says. We are different. We have been assigned different roles in nature, one is not better than the other, but it does change how men and women will act in certain situations. We all need to be treated fairly...but there is some times when you need to stand up for yourself. Plant, don't let girls slap you around for fun. If they do it just because you won't hit them back, give them a surprise next time.

While I think everyone should be treated fairly, it's hard. It is especially hard when you have those girls who think it's okay to act like a slut to get things from men, they are slowing the progression. Ever group has someone in it slowing down what they are striving for.

So much of equality is a gray area. It's very hard to prove anyone right or wrong in something like this.

The people should not be afraid of it's government. The government should be afraid of it's people. -V

I won't restate what anyone already said, but... Ok, the reason prostate cancer isn't as famous and researched as breast cancer is because people (the vast majority of whom are women, often those diagnosed with breast cancer and their families) have mobilized and lobbied to raise money and push for research. It has been an absolute grassroots movement. If men and the families of men who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer did the same, there would be absolutely no difference. Nobody started a vast conspiracy to cure the two cancers that affect women before they cure any of the other ones because girls rule and boys drool. Come on. It has complete squat to do with sexism or PC.

Props to Joey, that girl is always right.

PS: Also, guys, I get it. Women and men both have differences and similarities and strengths and weaknesses. You're not adding anything to the conversation by restating that. Seriously.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

All I have to say is that damn, you guys write a lot on a subject that the people I've talked to have just capped off in one reply.
Everyone is looked down upon and injustiwhatever.... you know. Stamped on, disposed of, discriminated against, and poked in uncomfortable places by doctors. Everyone including men, women, and all other known and unknown genders. There is no use agruing about who gets their soul stamped on worse.

So my advice to you is just to be a sweet pickle and everything will turn out for you in life - everything.

Straight from my head to the page. No time to put in the extra details and justifications when you've worked yourself into a lather.
Nichole, the reason they stopped is because I came this close (that close ->|| ) to hitting one back, I even raised my hand before I managed to stop myself.
Hairballed Kat, I know for a fact many men have tried to raise money for prostate cancer research and awareness, 2 or 3 of them have even managed to get ads on TV recently. But they don't get the puplicitly or following breast cancer does, as far as I see it it's either because:
1. Women don't care about prostate cancer (as is the case with most females I know) and men don't want to think about it.
2: Breasts are soft and nice to look at while the prostate is a little gland inside the body of men that produces seminal fluid.
3: Women's health gets more publicity thanks to PC.
4: All of the above.
I say it's 4, but it was a rant about PC so I left 1 and 2 out in the original post.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Plant...you could make such a better argument with 1 and 2. Maybe women's health gets more publicity because women aren't afraid to stand up and say "I am unhealthy, I want to fix it." like most men are. This is not anyones problem, but the men who think they are to dignified to admit to weakness.

The people should not be afraid of it's government. The government should be afraid of it's people. -V

O.o

Breast cancer awareness is definately seen as more of a prominent issue because it is as u all say it is, guys just dont want to think about PC and probaby dont make it seen as that much of an issue, however it is speaking for itself in the deaths now. However girls dont exactly flip backwards at the thought of getting checked for breast cancer as u think, why do u think we would like to learn that we have a little killing cell inside of us? and the procedure.. Every bit of it is more painfull than getting something shoved up ur ass, im sure by now they have found a way to do that part quite painlessly.
Just, as you say cancer is not curable and i gues it is seen as easier to remove breast cancer than PC, one drawback to removing breasts is getting new ones, think about how that is done.. where do they get the skin? that cant be fun and after its all done i guarentee they arnt too great to look at. If the prostate is inside of you then why cant they just remove it east peasy and not have to worry about what the outside is gonna look like, its sure to be cheaper research.. so why does PC get pushed aside?? i dont think its because breasts look better.. and plant, u should quit talking like a sexist cuz its getting quite annoying, u know this site was started for females manga fans right?.. sorry thats just a little ironic this ended up here..

1. Breast are rather easy to replace, it's just about the most operated on part of the body. With time and money they can be better than before.
2: Without a prostate guys can't shoot, you pull the trigger but the firing pin is gone, that is looked down upon much worse than having false breasts.
3: This site was started by Rachel to showcase her work, and as far as I know the 99.9% female population is rather unintentional. (If that's wrong blame Joey)
4: I'm not sexist. Sure I think woman want special treatment instead of equality (you'll see what I mean if they start conscripting women someday) but I treat women as equals, I THINK of women as equals, even if most of them drive me up the wall.

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

You're not sexist... you just make vast generalizations about women. Yeah.

*eyeroll*

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

And I'm seldom surprised.
Besides, it's more of a generalization about all humans. They want all the benefits and none of the responsibilities. You want the right to vote and own property, but do you want the "right" to be forced into a war? I think not. It's only human nature

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Sorry to put you on the spot like that Plant. I was ranting too.. this is a rant page XP

It is a rant.
Speaking of rants the last 4% of the new WoW patch is taking 5 minutes, but the fist 96% took less than 2!

I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve, I have a history of losing my shirt...

Serves you right for playing WoW...