So, what about the older women? O_o

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Brilliant.
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Shameless plugging, hurray!

I have to get another shot!!!!

or is it just in Austin....

Probably not. Dammit.

Or is it just 6th grade girls????

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LIES!!! LIES AND FRUITCAKE!!!!

It's fantastic that this is happening - hopefully it'll save some lives and create an atmosphere where people feel more open and honest about their sexuality and sexual health. That being said, the fact that this comes, at least partially as a corporate handout is just another reminder of who holds sway in this country.

You know, it's always kinda funny when something wrong turns out right.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

Well this is going to cause ethical wars.

What if the girls and/or their families refuse?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've never has a heart, Never know love.

Yet you expect me to care, to care about you.

Now you're staring at me, You stare at me as your love fades to grey.

What did you expect, Did you expectg me to love, love you with a heart I've never had?

Well, that's their right, though I doubt the state'll see it that way (b*stards). I don't understand why they'd object, save fear of needles, because even those who swear to abstinence today don't know what they'll think tomorrow. Still, the girls should always have the right to refuse the vaccine - the parents shouldn't have a say in it as it's not their body.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

Hmm. How... unCatholic of him. Celebrate. :)

I just know I'm not taking no fricken shot.
I hate shots. They are pointy.

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LIES!!! LIES AND FRUITCAKE!!!!

Older women have to arrange to get their shots themselves, but you can get them at any gynecologist's and as long as your health care doesn't suck too much (though most people's do) then you shouldn't have to pay for it. I haven't gotten it yet, but I will before I go to college. All of you should! HPV is an extremely prevalent STD, and cervical cancer can be very vicious.

Usually with vaccinations (although most vaccines are less emotionally charged) you aren't allowed to advance to the next grade until you've been vaccinated either by your doctor or through the school.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

GAH! It's pointy and/or sharp! GET IT AWAY BEFORE IT HURTS ME.

I'm paranoid about needles and pins and toothpicks. I always seem to jab myself if I get close enough.

Thank god for...thimbles (I was going to say sewing machings, but they're dangerous too.).

Hmm, through the school. What if someone suddenly goes insane and jabs themself and try to commit suicide? Or something?

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Brilliant.
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Shameless plugging, hurray!

I feel the same way about needles, Cara... except I'm not scared of toothpicks.

But you know? Something tells me I'd hate cancer far worse than a quick jab to the arm.

I agree.

The people should not be afraid of it's government. The government should be afraid of it's people. -V

Shots aren't all that bad, the flu shot is basically painless along with the tetris shot. What bothers me is getting my blood drawn, especially when they miss your vein...

This Gardasil vaccine only consists of two measly shots. I am big girl... (As long as I get my wolly-pop ;D)

And caramel, I honestly doubt that some one would try to commit suicide with a cervical cancer vaccine... Plus being at your pediatrics office with your mom, I am sure nothing like that would happen. It's not like the school nurse dose it for you. (or am I mistaken?!)

"Tetris" shot? o_o

*Tetra. My bad.

lol, I thought of the video game "Tetris" with all the little blocks having syringes on one side. xD

Don't you mean "tetnus" 0.0''

Anyway, considering that HPV can only be passed by direct contact of the genitals, if the girl gets it, it's really her own fault. (barring rape and the like) I mean, it's not like you can contract it like a cold without doing anything you shouldn't be doing....

Which is why this might cause allot of debates, making girls get the shot is like telling them its okay to go out and have sex with anyone.

I know thats not the point but that how things are going to be taken by many people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've never has a heart, Never know love.

Yet you expect me to care, to care about you.

Now you're staring at me, You stare at me as your love fades to grey.

What did you expect, Did you expectg me to love, love you with a heart I've never had?

Heheh... yeah... the Pope isn't going to be too happy about this one. xD

I fail to see how it's anyone else's business whether these girls sleep with anyone or not. Besides, sexual urges are strong no matter what - if they don't get these shots, they'll still have sex with people, they just won't be as safe.

It's like the old joke - what's the difference between a sl*t and a prude - a sl*t makes sure you use a condom before she has sex with you.

When people are in situations where they're likely to have sex, theywill have sex. It's been shown again and again that, at best , only about 5% of the population will remain abstinent. With that in mind, why don't we accept sex as an inevitable - and dare I say liberating, even spiritual - experience in Human interactions and simply act to make it safe for those who chose to participate in it. I mean, it's their body, shouldn't they be informed of how to take care of it?

I'm not trying to bite your head off - and sorry if it seemed that way - but I just feel rather passionate about the need to allow people to take responsibility for their actions and to have the freedom to do anything that doesn't harm anyone else. But, in order to do that, they must be educated as to the consequences and methods to mitigate any unintended consequences of their actions. Basically, you need to have the proper tools to be truly responsible, and those that with hold those tools from you are, whether they know it or not, trying to hold power over you and trying to hurt you.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

Exactly, and giving them a vaccine is a cop-out. We've decided we can't teach people how to take care of themselves, so instead we give them a way to get around it. And while liberation is great, I don't know if that's quite the same thing as two eleven year olds fooling around under the sheets. Sex is liberating, it is a huge part of maturity, but are 11 and 12 year olds really ready to understand it? I'm freaking 17, I still don't get it and I know countless people as old as 50 who don't get it. It's something that only maturity can clear up, and I don't think most 12 year olds have that kind of maturity.

This especially comes into play with your point about taking responsibility for your actions. So a 13 year old girl wants to have sex for whatever reason. She thinks she gets it and she gets wrapped up in the typical cliches surrouding the subject. Oops..she got an STD. How can you expect a girl that young to take repsonsiiblity when she didn't even understand the magnitude of her original actions? Not to mention, that for most STDs, she's going to have to live with that mistake for the rest of her life. She's going to have to hide it from her boyfriends. She's going to have to tell her husband. Depending on the disease, she may pass it to her children.

I'm not trying to make a point, because I don't have an answer myself--I'm undecided on this. But looking back at myself when I was 13, I know I didn't understand, even though at the time, I thought I knew everything. If I was faced with an STD at that age, I'd have no idea the life long consequences I'd brought upon myself with that decision. So, by giving them this vaccine, it's like giving them permission to risk the above senario, I think that's what I mean.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is....sure freedom is a huge gift which should be taken full advantage of, but doesn't there comes a certain point when it's harmful? When the well-being of the person should be the higher priority?

(please don't pwn me too badly.^^')

no problem ;)

My counter to that is that just because a 13-year old gets a shot ot stop STD's is by no means more likely to make them have sex than giving out tetanus shots makes kids likely to play in a yard full of jagged scrap metal. It's not like they're taking kids in pairs, handing them condoms and locking them in dark rooms together. They're just giving them vaccines for activities they will no doubt participate in down the road. And to be fair, I don't think most 11 year olds bodies have matured physically to the point where they can have sex yet. Though all the Human growth hormone they get through hormone injected-cows in their milk may prove me wrong here. Seriously, that stuff is frightening.

Anyway, if we're going to look at what causes teen pregnancy and increasing patterns of sexuality amongst teens, we need to examine the overriding cultural pressures, and, more importantly, the underlying economic realities that make this behavior desireable to kids. This goes well beyond simply "getting ideas from watching that Britney Spears" (not that you were implying that it was so simple). It reaches down to the core of our society. What sort of environmental pressures lead young boys to "prove their masculinity" at such young ages? What is it in young girls that also leads them to associate sexuality with achieving their gender roles? Does poverty have anything to do with this? I can't answer these questions myself, but I would venture a guess that pre-adolescent sexuality has more to do with fufilling gendered roles in society than handing out condoms in class.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

Though I wonder if that "poverty" note of mine doesn't spring from bourgeois classist stereotypes more than hard sociological evidence. Crap.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

If you've had as many shots as I have over the years, it doesn't hurt at all.
I've donated blood several times. It didn't hurt that much.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

Well, I can't argue there. For teens, there's no reason not to. So I guess I have a problem more with the age of immunization, than the immunization itself. *sweat drop*

I understand that sex is inevitable in our society, it just seems wrong that we are making girls have a vaccine to prevent one of the many possible consequences of poor choices.

Sex isn't a poor choice, not being careful who you're having it with and not using protection is.

We shouldn't make a vaccine like this mandatory, or at least please not for girls this young, wait till they are more mature. The sooner sex related things are brought up in school (e.g. sex-ed and vaccines for sex related ailments) the sooner kids start thinking about sex and experimenting.

Make the vaccine available for free to the girls through their doctor and make it mandatory in older grades, but don't force it upon kids who don't know anything about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've never has a heart, Never know love.

Yet you expect me to care, to care about you.

Now you're staring at me, You stare at me as your love fades to grey.

What did you expect, Did you expectg me to love, love you with a heart I've never had?

A surprising amount of girls lose their virginity at 13 or even earlier, as sad as it is and as much as we'd like to pretend they didn't, and of course the younger you are the less likely you are to make thought-out choices about protection.

I don't think it is true at all that sex education and std-related vaccines make kids think about sex earlier. TV shows and movies that show raunchy sex with no consequences make kids think about sex earlier.

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

I agree with Kat. I stopped viewing pregnant 11-year-olds as a rarity ages ago. Furthermore, the earlier and better-educated about sex these children are, the better. As Sinn pointed out, people are going to do what they want whether they are vaccinated or not. I'd venture to say that having parents that would set your @ss on fire if they even caught you thinking about sex promotes abstinence far better than denying girls a life-saving vaccine ever will. People are raised with different values, different priorities--and some people don't give a damn what they've been taught could hurt them.

Stupidity kills. Ignorance does, too. It's both sad and disgusting how many girls I've met who don't even know the difference between their c/lits and their urethras. I've been the one to inform many a peer that girls could, like men, m/ast/urb/ate. They didn't know because some tight-wad refused to tell them. Some intelligent girl with no desire to meet societal standards but with a strong "need" could go out and give herself to the first guy that claims to love her because she didn't know she could "help herself" and keep her dignity.

As for the "religious right's" say in this, making it even easier for some misguided youth with no life experience to go out and get pregnant or contract some disease in order to let "God's Will be done"--no condoms, no contraception, no vaccinations: you know the bit--is an undisputable act of pure, fascist, evil.

Hallelujah!

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

And when an atheist says that, you know it must make sense. ;3

Agreed here. Back in Ancient Rome, 11 was considered middle age, as the average lifespan was 20. A woman would have been married by then. Ignorance is very bad, I have to agree. Recutms of the right are just as bad. I recently heard about a girl who was told that even having a boy touch her would guarantee her getting pregnant. This was by her parents. She was also told that if a guy touched her private places, she would definitely get AIDS and die. >_<

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

That's disgusting!!! <---the lies told to the girl; NOT the Roman thing...

I just heard that a state judge has blocked the executive order, and that there is a bill in the legislature to block distribution of the vaccine in Texas all together. In other words, NOBODY will get immunized in Texas against HPV, reguardless of age. >_<

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

Thats even WORSE than making it mandatory!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've never has a heart, Never know love.

Yet you expect me to care, to care about you.

Now you're staring at me, You stare at me as your love fades to grey.

What did you expect, Did you expectg me to love, love you with a heart I've never had?

See back wheb abortion was illegal in Illinois there was this group in Chicago called the JANE collective. They got medical training in how to perform safe abortions and began giving them out free of charge to any woman who wanted one. Now this was all highly illegal, so they set up a secret network to allow interested parties to contact them, but to avoid getting caught or prosecuted. They managed to perform 11,000 aboritons over the years in which they operated. They saved a lot of lives.

Maybe something similar should happen in Texas were this stuff to get banned.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

That would probably help, but an unwanted pregnancy seems to be a more up-front issue than a preventive vaccine. I'm not saying that one procedure is more necessary than the other, but I think women would be more likely to agree to allowing unliscenced professionals to perform upon them when the danger to their own lives is emminent. How many mothers would take their pre-teen girls to a vaccination equivalent of something like JANE?

perhaps a community health center would be the answer then. Something that specializes in preventative care. So long as you have someone who's a licensed medical professional - maybe some doctors, nurses or even EMT's/paramedics chipping in some volunteer time - and the pricing was for-cost/free than I think some mothers would do it. Hell, if you're really desperate to get some legitimacy to the center, you could encourage some of the untrained personnel to take some night courses and come back to train the others.

I totally agree that the JANE model is more effective in dire situations than in simple preventative cases. But perhaps, rather than outright copying from them, we could take a few pages out of their playbook instead. Use their community-based action and D.I.Y. (Do It Yourself) concepts and adapt them to our own methods and organizations.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

That makes more sense.

I've read in some magazine the US is the fathest behind in teaching sexual education. Most of the countries all over the world begin teaching students around 11 or so. But we don't until the students are well into high school (As far as I can tell), or they don't teach them at all. And that's bad, 'cause they less people know, the more unwanted results people get. This has nothing to do with modesty and other stuff. This is pure ignorance. Some of my friends can't even talk about periods without turning bright red and screaming "SHADDUPWHATAREYOUSAYING?!". They say it as if it's something to be ashamed of. I have no idea how they are gonna get through life if they can't accept it's part of life.

Sad.

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Brilliant.
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Shameless plugging, hurray!

Truly.

However, I know that the first ever attempt made by one of my schools to offer sex education was during my 4th grade year. It was more of a mini-course on how boys and girls are different and how they interact with each other in different ways as they get older, etc, etc...

We all knew what sex was... we were just sketchy about all the details and technicalities. They didn't talk about those until 7th grade. I guess it's better than what most schools districts do.

*shrug* couldn't doctors in states that border Texas send out some kind of offer to vaccinate Texans? Perhaps even provide transportation?

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

If Texas bans the vaccinations, then there's nothing any other state can do. I mean those who are extremely interested and can afford transportation can go to other states, but you've got to keep in mind that Texas is the same size of a lot of European nations. It's a bit of a trip. The transport costs alone would leave most of the impoverished in the major cities of Houston, Austin, Dallas, and San Antonio stranded. Then there's the possible cost of vaccinations, which, depending on how much that is, could possibly render cervical cancer protection a luxury of the upper-middle and upper classes.

"And just like that, it was over... The last flames flickered and died amidst the rubble of an empire[.] As the smoke rose into the blackened sky, we realized that the world we had known was gone forever." - Eric "Doc" Griffin on the fall

I guess it all really depends on how much Texans (or their surrounders) actually care that this is happening. Are the majority of Texans even well-informed about any part of this issue?

Touche...

How sad.

"No, you can't get a life-saving vaccine, because it kind of distantly has to do with sex. And that's bad."

"But... isn't death kind of bad?"

"Not as bad as sex, everyone knows that."

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

Yes, however, there's legal precidence against them.
A few years ago, some Native American tribes started providing free transportation to their casinos for Texans. Some rectums of the right sued, and got a court injunction against this. It's easy to argue that this should also happen to anyone who provides transportation for getting the HPV vaccination.

Oh, BTW, Governor Perry has threatened to veto this bill, but his own party has abandoned him and said that if he vetoes the bill, they have enough votes to override it. v_v

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

So... why did he join the Republican party again?

Texas is considered a state redder than blood. In fact, this is really the only liberal thing Rick has ever done. He ardently supports expanding the death penalty to include the mentally retarded, for example.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

if it saves lives of women people, it is good.

Johnny

Er, your using too many fancy-pants words! Please explain this forum in stupid-person terms so I can understand.

People in stone houses should not throw glass.

Muahaha! I gots me some good ol' Gardasil during me last check-up - take that, religious-right! xD