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San? Kun? Chan?

mangaminx's picture
General Discussion mangaminx - Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 21:36

I'm a bit confused by Japanese suffixes. What do they mean in different situations? What is the correct way to use them?

Can anyone help me?

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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Caramel's picture

Chan is usually used to

Caramel; Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 22:25

Chan is usually used to address females, also when they talk in third person (Caramel-chan). Also used if you know them well.

Kun is usually reserved for males, and if you know them well.

San is a little higher on the social status, and it used if you don't know the person that well.

I can't really explain it that good, so let's hope someone else can explain it better. >_>

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mangaminx's picture

thanx Caramel! ^_^

mangaminx; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:41

thanx Caramel! ^_^

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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killijoy's picture

Another one to remember:

killijoy; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:46

-Sempai means uperclassman, and is very formal. (i.e. I call Fritz Onii-sempai, meaning older-brother, upperclassman.)

I think Caramel covered the basics, except for -chan, which is used for a very close friend.

.:suzu-chan/killijoy/Joeys Cupcake:.
.:"No time for goodbyes," he said, as he faded away. "It's hard to imagine, but one day you'll end up like me." Then he said, "If you want to stay alive, hold on for your life.":.

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mangaminx's picture

thanx to you also,

mangaminx; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:57

thanx to you also, killijoy!
your name...uh...rockz! ^_^

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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Joamette Gil's picture

Chan: Used for females. This

Joamette Gil; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 03:26

Chan: Used for females. This suffix is a term of endearment or friendship used on females younger than yourself or females you are very close and familiar with. One would never call their teacher, say, "Watanabe-chan." They would say "Watanabe-sensei." If you use it on a boy, it can be interpreted as (A) cute in a funny way or (B) highly insulting.

Kun: The same rules for "chan" apply for "kun." The only difference is that "kun" is meant for boys, not girls.

San: This means "Mr," "Ms," or "Mrs." Unlike its English counterparts, "san" goes after the person's last name. This is typically used for adults you don't know or people with whom you aren't particularly close.

Sempai: Anyone older than you--basically, your social superior. This one isn't exactly a suffix; actually, you can call someone "sempai" without having to say his or her name at all.

Sama: This suffix connotes respect. You typically use it for both males and females when they are older than you, but you can also use it on anyone for whom you harbour great respect.

Sensei: Just means teacher. You tack it onto teachers' or professors' last names. It can also be used to address anyone who is unofficially teaching you something or someone who is a master in a given subject area. Like "sempai," it can be used on its own.

Unless there are any suffixes I forgot (or am maybe unware of), that's about it.

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mangaminx's picture

I give deeply heartfelt

mangaminx; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 07:05

I give deeply heartfelt thanx for that clear and astute explanation!
thank-you, Joey-sama!
^_^

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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Joamette Gil's picture

Anytime, Emu-chan. ^.~ Note:

Joamette Gil; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 15:36

Anytime, Emu-chan. ^.~

Note: I am not calling you an "emu," as in the bird. Manga and Minx both start with M, so I've decided to call you "M-chan." Only in Japanese, M is pronounced em-uh. Don't you just love Japanese? ;p

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sakura's picture

jaaaaaaaaah a real-life

sakura; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 18:46

jaaaaaaaaah a real-life emu!!
lol
we all LOVE japanese.
hai. arigatou. un. ohayou. nanika atta.
:)
Sakura
ps it all means (in this order): yes-thanks-yeah-good morning-whats up

♥
Screw world peace.
I WANT A PONY.

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mangaminx's picture

hai! Japanese rockz! And I

mangaminx; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 20:44

hai! Japanese rockz!
And I am glad to hear that I have not become mangaemu. It doesn't have the same ring to it...
^.~

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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Caramel's picture

OOoh, what about -dono? I

Caramel; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 22:33

OOoh, what about -dono? I read that somewhere. Can't remember....O_O

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Joamette Gil's picture

This looks like a job

Joamette Gil; Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 22:49

This looks like a job for...

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUper WIKI!

:D Wikipedia says...

"Dono / tono
Dono and tono (both written 殿) roughly mean "lord". This title is no longer used in daily conversation, though it is still used in some types of written business correspondence. It is also seen on drug prescriptions, certificates and awards, and in written correspondence in tea ceremonies.

Note: Fans of anime and manga may notice that the use of this honorific is not uncommon. It often comes up in two forms.

submissive -- Using its "lord" or "master" roots, this form of dono is often considered to show slightly less respect than sama, but more than san. In the anime Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the character Mihoshi is addressed by her computer unit as "Mihoshi-dono." In fansubbed anime where military or para-military organisations are featured, "dono" is translated as "sir." Likewise, when used by Himura Kenshin in the anime Rurouni Kenshin when referring to women it is intended to show great humility and respect for the addressee.

equal -- This form of dono is used by a powerful/important person to address another powerful/important person with a great deal of respect without elevating the addressee above the addresser. In the anime, Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the characters Seto-sama and Washu address the main character Tenchi as "Tenchi-dono" out of respect for his great abilities. A more blatant usage is in the anime Naruto when Sarutobi addresses Orochimaru disguised as the Fourth Kazekage as "Kazekage-dono" out of equality of both being Kage-level Ninja."

Wiki also had this to say about other suffixes I forgot/didn't know! ^_^*

"Shi (氏, Shi?) is used in formal writing, and sometimes in very formal speech, for referring to a person who is unfamiliar to the speaker, typically a person known through publications whom the speaker has never actually met. For example, the shi title is common in the speech of newsreaders. It is preferred in legal documents, academic journals, and certain other formal written styles. Once a person's name has been used with shi, the person can be referred to with shi alone, without the name, as long as there is only one person being referred to.

Occupation-related titles
Instead of the above general honorifics, it is fairly common to use the name of the person's job after the name. It is common for sports athletes to be referred to as XXX-senshu (選手, senshu?) rather than XXX-san. The Japanese soccer-player Robert Cullen is referred to as Karen-senshu. A master carpenter might have the title tōryō (棟梁, tōryō?), meaning "master carpenter", attached to his name, and be referred to as "Suzuki-Tōryō" rather than "Suzuki-San". Television lawyer Kazuya Maruyama is referred to by television presenters and in promotional literature as Maruyama bengoshi (丸山弁護士, Maruyama bengoshi?) (literally "Maruyama-lawyer"), but would be called Maruyama-sensei by a private client. A minority of educated Japanese now prefer to address their attorneys as XXX-bengoshi because the traditional appellation XXX-sensei is felt to be unduly deferential.

Inside companies, it is also common to refer to people using their company rank, particularly for those of a high rank, such as a company president, shachō (社長, shachō?), or other titles such as buchō (部長, buchō?), a department chief, etc.

Honorific job titles
The name of a job may have two versions. For example, "translator" may be hon'yakuka (翻訳家, hon'yakuka?) or hon'yakusha (翻訳者, hon'yakusha?). Job titles ending in ka (家, ka?), literally "house", usually imply some kind of expertise and, thus, by the rules of modesty in Japanese, they are not usually used for oneself. The plain form with sha (者, sha?), literally "person", may be used by the person or in plain text, such as a book title. Use of the ka ending implies respect. Similarly, there are jūdōka (柔道家, jūdōka?), or "judo experts" in judo, and manga authors are referred to as mangaka (漫画家, mangaka?) or "manga experts".

In the case of farmers, the old name hyakushō (百姓, hyakushō?), literally "one hundred surnames", is now considered offensive (see kotobagari), and farmers are referred to, and refer to themselves as, nōka (農家, nōka?), or "farming experts".

Honorific job titles such as sensei, which is applied to teachers, doctors, and lawyers, also have plain forms. For example, in plain language, a teacher is a kyōshi (教師, kyōshi?), a doctor is an isha (医者, isha?) or ishi (医師, ishi?), and a lawyer is bengoshi (弁護士, bengoshi?). The polite versions are used when addressing or talking about the person, but the plain forms are used when referring to their profession.

Titles for criminals and the accused
Convicted criminals were once referred to without any title, though today with the title hikoku (被告, hikoku? defendant) for political correctness. For example, Matsumoto-hikoku of Aum Shinrikyo. Suspects awaiting trial are referred to by the title yōgisha (容疑者, yōgisha? suspect) for the same reason.

These titles were made for political correctness, however, they have become derogatory as time passes. When Gorō Inagaki was arrested for a traffic accident in 2001, some media referred him with the new-made title menbaa (メンバー, menbaa?), originating from the English word "member," to avoid use of yōgisha (容疑者, yōgisha? suspect). This title, however, was criticized as an unnatural term and became derogatory almost instantly.

The title jukeisha (受刑者) indicates a criminal serving a sentence.

Titles for companies
As mentioned above, companies often refer to each other's offices informally using the company name plus san. In correspondence, the title onchū (御中) is added to the company name when the letter is not addressed to a specific person in the company. Furthermore, it is considered highly important to mention the status of the company, either incorporated, kabushikigaisha (株式会社, kabushikigaisha?), often abbreviated with the kanji kabu (株, kabu?) in brackets, or limited, yūgen gaisha (有限会社, yūgen gaisha?), often abbreviated with the kanji yū (有, yū?) in brackets either before or after the company's name.

There are also separate words for "our company", heisha (弊社, heisha?), (which literally means "clumsy/poor company") and "your company", kisha (貴社, kisha?) in writing or onsha (御社, onsha?) in speech (these last two literally mean "honoured company".) Heisha or onsha can also be replaced with the more neutral tōsha (当社, tōsha?) (literally "this company") or jisha (自社, jisha?).

For organizations that provide professional services, such as law or accounting firms, sha may be substituted by jimusho (事務所, meaning "office") in the above constructs.

Dono / tono
Dono and tono (both written 殿) roughly mean "lord". This title is no longer used in daily conversation, though it is still used in some types of written business correspondence. It is also seen on drug prescriptions, certificates and awards, and in written correspondence in tea ceremonies.

Note: Fans of anime and manga may notice that the use of this honorific is not uncommon. It often comes up in two forms.

submissive -- Using its "lord" or "master" roots, this form of dono is often considered to show slightly less respect than sama, but more than san. In the anime Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the character Mihoshi is addressed by her computer unit as "Mihoshi-dono." In fansubbed anime where military or para-military organisations are featured, "dono" is translated as "sir." Likewise, when used by Himura Kenshin in the anime Rurouni Kenshin when referring to women it is intended to show great humility and respect for the addressee.

equal -- This form of dono is used by a powerful/important person to address another powerful/important person with a great deal of respect without elevating the addressee above the addresser. In the anime, Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the characters Seto-sama and Washu address the main character Tenchi as "Tenchi-dono" out of respect for his great abilities. A more blatant usage is in the anime Naruto when Sarutobi addresses Orochimaru disguised as the Fourth Kazekage as "Kazekage-dono" out of equality of both being Kage-level Ninja.

Ue
Ue (上) literally means "above" and, appropriately, denotes a high level of respect. While its use is no longer very common, it is still seen in constructions like 父上 (chichi-ue) and 母上 (haha-ue), reverent terms for one's own, or someone else's, father and mother, respectively.

Iemoto
Iemoto (家元, Iemoto?) is an even more polite version of sensei used for the highest ranking person heading a school or group in traditional art forms such as calligraphy, flower arrangement or tea ceremony. It is not generally used with the martial arts.

Royal and Official Titles
Heika (陛下, Heika?) is affixed to the end of a royal title, with a meaning similar to "Majesty". For example, Tennō heika (天皇陛下, Tennō heika?) means "His Majesty, the Emperor" and Joō heika (女王陛下, Joō heika?) means "Her Majesty, the Queen" (e.g. of Denmark). Heika by itself can also be used as a direct term of address, similar to "Your Majesty".

Denka (殿下, Denka?) is affixed to the end of a royal title, with a meaning similar to "Royal Highness" or "Majesty". For example Suwēden Ōkoku Bikutoria Kōtaishi denka (スウェーデン王国 ビクトリア皇太子殿下, Suwēden Ōkoku Bikutoria Kōtaishi denka?) "Her Royal Highness Crown Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden".

Kakka (閣下, Kakka?) means "Your Excellency" and is used for ambassadors and heads of state.

Hime (姫, Hime?) is used as an honorific if one is addressing a princess. For example, the Japanese name of the anime Princess Mononoke is Mononoke Hime. Hime may also be used as a direct address, akin to calling a person simply "Princess".

Martial Arts Titles
Martial Artists often use Sensei to distinguish instructors of a particular Ryu. Junior and Senior students are often organized via a sempai/kohai system. Other titles are conferred loosely and under no particular standardization. They often follow the commonly used black belt or Dan system of ranking. The usage of these titles is quite common outside of Japan and is subject to much interpretation.

The following explanations assume that judan (10th degree black belt) is the top rank within a style. These are loosely defined:

Renshi (錬士, Renshi?) often refers to an advanced instructor. Renshi means "teacher" or "one who has mastered himself." In many styles, it is awarded around the 5th degree godan (五段, godan?) or 6th degree rokudan (六段, rokudan?) black belt level.

Kyoshi (教士, Kyoshi?) refers to a master instructor. It is the second formal teaching rank. This title is usually awarded to one who has achieved a rank of 7th or 8th degree black belt (nanadan (七段, nanadan?) or hachidan (八段, hachidan?). Kyoshi are typically regarded as those who have distinguished themselves as expert teachers or instructors.

Hanshi (範士, Hanshi?) or sometimes Shihan (師範, Shihan?) refers to the senior instructor of instructors. This title is usually conferred at the 9th (kyudan) or 10th dan (jyudan) ranking, usually by the senior leader or leadership of the organization. This title is given to a senior instructor who has distinguished himself as a teacher of teachers.

Shishou (師匠, Shishou?) is also used for the name of a martial arts instructor"

Ah. I love Wiki.

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Reiko Kitsune's picture

Darn it! Everyone else beat

Reiko Kitsune; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 00:14

Darn it! Everyone else beat me to it!

Wiki rocks!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've never has a heart, Never know love.

Yet you expect me to care, to care about you.

Now you're staring at me, You stare at me as your love fades to grey.

What did you expect, Did you expectg me to love, love you with a heart I've never had?

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EpsilonZero's picture

Very nice! I have only one

EpsilonZero; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 00:22

Very nice! I have only one thing to add. All honorifics are meant to be used to show respect to others. However, just like anything in linguistics, they can easily be used to show disrespect as well. Much like using a first name without permission, the Japanese regaurd overly informal honorifics as disrespectful as well. For instance, a boy usuing "-chan" with another boy can be take as a taunt or a light insult. And this sometimes appears in anime as well. In the original Yu-Gi-Oh!, Jounouchi (Joey in the dub) refers to Kaiba as "Kaiba-sama", but it is clear from his tone that "-sama" is meant as a sarcastic insult, rather than a sign of high respect.

Other than that, you guys have done your research!^^


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Joamette Gil's picture

I actually knew that. Now

Joamette Gil; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:30

I actually knew that. Now I'm wondering why I didn't mention it...0_0

Well, I guess if anyone in here intends to make any comics or stories based in Japan, this thread will always be here as a helpful reference. ^-^*

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sakura's picture

waaaaaaaaah long text long

sakura; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:05

waaaaaaaaah long text long text long text get it awayyyyyyyy!*sob of despair for having to read all of that*
geeez had to get it out.
lol XD
you know i used to think that ~chan and ~san were the same. it appears NOT.
arigatou!
Sakura~chan

♥
Screw world peace.
I WANT A PONY.

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Caramel's picture

WIKI'S TEH BEST!! Though

Caramel; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 20:20

WIKI'S TEH BEST!!

Though sometimes there are 'vandalism' and people change things around. Like on one Nickelback page (:D) some people put something like "As of Nov. blah blah blah the sales went up to blah blah" when it was only October! O_O

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mangaminx's picture

My folks are down on Wiki

mangaminx; Monday, December 18, 2006 - 21:49

My folks are down on Wiki because of the vandalism, but it's so useful!

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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quamp's picture

A few more...

quamp; Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 13:12

-bozu (ぼず): This is a dishonorific used to refer to annoying, bratty boys. Can be translated as brat, punk, jerk, idiot, etc. I'm not sure if there is a female equivelant. This is NEVER used in formal speech.
-me (め): Another dishonorific used ONLY in informal speech, this is more insulting than -bozu, and can refer to anyone.
-kohai (こはい): This was mentioned but not explained. It refers to one's junior in an organization.
-neesan (ねえさん): Refers to a older female sibling, or a waitress. It is formal in nature. Rarely used today, but you may see it in older works (pre-2000.)
-neechan (ねえちゃん): Is an informal version of neesan. Also rarely used today, but you may see it in older works (pre-2000.)
-niisan (にいさん or 兄さん): refers to an older male sibling. Like -neesan, it is becoming obsolete.
-niichan (にいちゃん or 兄ちゃん): An informal version of niisan. Like -niichan, it too is becoming obsolete.
-josama (じょさま): Another honorific quickly becoming obsolete, this refers to a young female of high social status. It is being replaced by:
-chama (ちゃま): Also refers a younger female of high social status.
-tan (たん): refers to young girls in a cute manner. Usually used by very young people that have a hard time prouncing the ch sound.
And one left off of almost every list:
No honorific: This is very rare, as it implies the person and the speaker are very well aquainted and trust each other completely. It's NEVER done in formal speech, and when it is done, it's usually in a disparaging way.

And a correction:
Chan is, although very rarely, used to refer to males when speaking to each other. This is very informal, however.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

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Hairballed Kat's picture

Also: Buchou is a

Hairballed Kat; Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 21:29

Also:

Buchou is a word-slash-honorific that means most closely "president" in English, like president of a club or a manager in a company. It can be used on its own or tacked on to the end of a name.

Also, in relationships, it is common for one person to call the other "San" while the other doesn't use an honorific. Sometimes that marks who the "butch" in the relationship is, or if one of them is significantly older, but sometimes it doesn't really mean anything. It's just tradition. For both of them to go without using an honorific is considered a sign of very close intimacy (as Quamp said).

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

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mangaminx's picture

Thank-you so much, quamp! I

mangaminx; Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 21:54

Thank-you so much, quamp! I was wondering about no honorific, but I couldn't find it anywhere
^_^

~~~
Outside of a dog, a book is your best friend, and inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

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Caramel's picture

No honorifics are kinda

Caramel; Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 00:57

No honorifics are kinda disrespctful, if you don't know them that well.

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quamp's picture

Boucho?

quamp; Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 01:55

Erm... Buchou means counterintelligence.
Shachō (社長 or しゃちょう) is how people would address a company president.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

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Hairballed Kat's picture

Really? I got that out of

Hairballed Kat; Friday, December 22, 2006 - 03:00

Really? I got that out of the end of one of my little yuri mangas. Seems odd that it would be wrong...

Pull down the future with the one you love.
~Television.

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quamp's picture

Yea...

quamp; Friday, December 22, 2006 - 23:04

This site is one of the best online translators I've found.

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

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I feel educated...=) This is

Rocko; Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 16:05

I feel educated...=)

This is really good...

I actually have one question though...I know two lesbians...
who refer to each other using "kun"...I tried asking one of them about it but she said it's also used for soemone you love...
but she wasn't sure......just wondering if they're using it correctly...

I think I found a flower in a field of weeds
I think I found a flower in a field of weeds
Searching until my hands bleed
This flower don't belong to me

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I feel educated...=) This is

Rocko; Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 16:05

I feel educated...=)

This is really cool...

I actually have one question though...I know two lesbians...
who refer to each other using "kun"...I tried asking one of them about it but she said it's also used for soemone you love...
but she wasn't sure......just wondering if they're using it correctly...

I think I found a flower in a field of weeds
I think I found a flower in a field of weeds
Searching until my hands bleed
This flower don't belong to me

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Joamette Gil's picture

"Kun" and "chan" can

Joamette Gil; Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 17:50

"Kun" and "chan" can definitely be a sign of affection towards the person you're saying it.

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StephanieNicole's picture

Yay!

StephanieNicole; Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 21:21

One of my friends explained this to me and I've been using it on people at school. :3
I've been doing it right!

I called one of my teachers Sensei.
They kind of just stared at me.
So I walked away.

I cant wait to use sempai next year <3
High School is gonna own :P

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIES!!! LIES AND FRUITCAKE!!!!

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WaterFaerie's picture

My education;

WaterFaerie; Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 00:48

My education;

Aoyagi-Ritsuka Aishteru! It means quite literally I love Ritsuka Aoyagi, whom is of course the main characture in Loveless.

Also, I think everyone knows Kneishua. That is spelled so freaky-deek'in wrong but if you kinda sound it out... it works. Sorta. Maybe.
OMFG - that sounds so kool to use that whole thing in school. I'm gonna see what my teachers do... I must consult Tasha on the appropriate calling of her; Tasha-chan! And Tabby too... but she doesn't get into Japanese so I think she would just be odded-out...

Mm! This information was very helpful... when I was watching Loveless and Ouran HSHC I was soo confused trying to track how the terms were used. Thankies!

Toodless.... ;D

So my advice to you is just to be a sweet pickle and everything will turn out for you in life - everything.

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quamp's picture

[pedantic mode]Ai and

quamp; Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 17:10

[pedantic mode]Ai and shiteru are two separate words.[/pedantic mode]Techincally, shiteru is a contraction of shite iru, which can mean "doing" or "continuing to do."

Quamp's discount manga/anime fan fiction
The Texas Conventions a Collection of artwork I've collected over various conventions.

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